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14/05/2008, 10:40 PM Mello Yello Joined on 03/01/2004 Norwich Posts 4,115 Re: Last 3 years - £19.3m transfer fees incoming - £8.6m transfer fees outgoing  Mello Yello wrote: Yes, but where's the 'Sky' money GONE!....... "Sky money, where's it gone".....Anyone?......Anyone?......No?......"Oh well"....... "Give 'em enough rope"......    Report

14/05/2008, 11:12 PM lappinitup Joined on 30/01/2007 Norwich Posts 1,501 Re: Last 3 years - £19.3m transfer fees incoming - £8.6m transfer fees outgoing  Mello Yello wrote:  Mello Yello wrote: Yes, but where's the 'Sky' money GONE!....... "Sky money, where's it gone".....Anyone?......Anyone?......No?......"Oh well"....... Sobvious Mello, 'The Black hole'. I thought everybody knew that !    Cor blas bor thas bin hard gorn, bu thas gorta git batter.    Report

14/05/2008, 11:16 PM Mr.Carrow Joined on 06/12/2003 Posts 1,744 Re: Last 3 years - £19.3m transfer fees incoming - £8.6m transfer fees outgoing  Trent Canary wrote:  GazzaTCC wrote:  Trent Canary wrote: I blame the wages. Someone a while ago posted our wages/turnover ratio, to say its unhealthy is an understatement. But then so is the vast majority of clubs. Im surprised the sport as a whole gets away with it. There was an interested quote in the paper (I've been surfing and can't find it) a week or so back, from Deliottes, as part of their annual football survey, suggesting that professional clubs should aim for an ideal scenario where players' wages should be a maximum of 50% of the clubs turnover.     Thats the general rule for any business Gazza IMO. The stats I read recently had Norwich up around 80% some years, and ive heard that some premiership clubs are the same. Ive always been convinced that the money issues in the game is down to player wages, and its going to take a widespread initiative to curb it, but it wont happen. http://www.pinkun.com/cs/forums/1182016/ShowPost.aspx  -Heres the thread here infact, last year Ipswich had a whopping 95% wages to turnover ratio! Now someone please explain to me how thats sustainable? (There is an answer, but its a very unfair and unethical one) NCFC`s player wages as a percentage of turnover have been reduced from 50% in the promotion season, to 29% in the Prem, then 36% the following season, and 31% last season.  That is way below average.    Report

14/05/2008, 11:16 PM Mr.Carrow Joined on 06/12/2003 Posts 1,744 Re: Last 3 years - £19.3m transfer fees incoming - £8.6m transfer fees outgoing  Trent Canary wrote:  GazzaTCC wrote:  Trent Canary wrote: I blame the wages. Someone a while ago posted our wages/turnover ratio, to say its unhealthy is an understatement. But then so is the vast majority of clubs. Im surprised the sport as a whole gets away with it. There was an interested quote in the paper (I've been surfing and can't find it) a week or so back, from Deliottes, as part of their annual football survey, suggesting that professional clubs should aim for an ideal scenario where players' wages should be a maximum of 50% of the clubs turnover.     Thats the general rule for any business Gazza IMO. The stats I read recently had Norwich up around 80% some years, and ive heard that some premiership clubs are the same. Ive always been convinced that the money issues in the game is down to player wages, and its going to take a widespread initiative to curb it, but it wont happen. http://www.pinkun.com/cs/forums/1182016/ShowPost.aspx  -Heres the thread here infact, last year Ipswich had a whopping 95% wages to turnover ratio! Now someone please explain to me how thats sustainable? (There is an answer, but its a very unfair and unethical one) NCFC`s player wages as a percentage of turnover have been reduced from 50% in the promotion season, to 29% in the Prem, then 36% the following season, and 31% last season.  That is way below average.    Report

14/05/2008, 11:22 PM Trent Canary Joined on 15/11/2005 Posts 631 Re: Last 3 years - £19.3m transfer fees incoming - £8.6m transfer fees outgoing According to the stats from the thread, 45% in the prem, 62% the year after. With highs of 80/90% in the late 90s. But yes the last few years it appears we are under control. But im sure many would argue we dont invest enough in players, but thats another arguement for another day. Not sure which stats are right however.    Report

14/05/2008, 11:22 PM lappinitup Joined on 30/01/2007 Norwich Posts 1,501 Re: Last 3 years - £19.3m transfer fees incoming - £8.6m transfer fees outgoing You are repeating yourself Mr Carrow. That's not like you !     Cor blas bor thas bin hard gorn, bu thas gorta git batter.    Report

15/05/2008, 1:12 AM Jimmy Smith Joined on 16/11/2005 Posts 822 Re: Last 3 years - £19.3m transfer fees incoming - £8.6m transfer fees outgoing  Mello Yello wrote: Yes, but where's the 'Sky' money GONE!....... Without trying to completely defend the board on this, i do believe our season in the prem saved us from a real financial struglle like so many former prem clubs like us have suffered, like leicester and coventry before investment, and now southampton. So i can see where a fair amount has gone, we've put some into long term investment, i.e ground maintainence, the hotel... however, without all the facts and figures, none of us can do the sums, only the board can. Bally Smart, the (wo)man who got away!    Report

15/05/2008, 7:22 AM Mr.Carrow Joined on 06/12/2003 Posts 1,744 Re: Last 3 years - £19.3m transfer fees incoming - £8.6m transfer fees outgoing  Trent Canary wrote: According to the stats from the thread, 45% in the prem, 62% the year after. With highs of 80/90% in the late 90s. But yes the last few years it appears we are under control. But im sure many would argue we dont invest enough in players, but thats another arguement for another day. Not sure which stats are right however. No, that`s the overall wage bill, not the "football" wage bill.  The non-football wage bill is the only one which has continued to rise year on year and indeed last year it was nearly as big as the football one.    Report

15/05/2008, 7:24 AM Mr.Carrow Joined on 06/12/2003 Posts 1,744 Re: Last 3 years - £19.3m transfer fees incoming - £8.6m transfer fees outgoing  Jimmy Smith wrote:  Mello Yello wrote: Yes, but where's the 'Sky' money GONE!....... Without trying to completely defend the board on this, i do believe our season in the prem saved us from a real financial struglle like so many former prem clubs like us have suffered, like leicester and coventry before investment, and now southampton. So i can see where a fair amount has gone, we've put some into long term investment, i.e ground maintainence, the hotel... however, without all the facts and figures, none of us can do the sums, only the board can. Which is exactly why they can get away with spinning things however they want and the vast majority just accept it.    Report

15/05/2008, 10:54 AM blahblahblah Joined on 11/05/2006 Clambering back on the fence with a sheepish look. Posts 4,430 Re: Last 3 years - £19.3m transfer fees incoming - £8.6m transfer fees outgoing  Mr.Carrow wrote: Which is exactly why they can get away with spinning things however they want and the vast majority just accept it. Don't take it lying down Mr Carrow - you obviously care enough about this issue to post about it at 7:24 am, when most of us are trying to work out how to tie our shoelaces or getting toothpaste down our shirts. What I suggest you do is get together a dossier of the facts of the situation, all in one place.  Then publish them in a location on the information-super-hard-shoulder. A thread here, a facebook group - wherever, you don't need to be a programmer to get stuff online these days.  Then you can approach this newspaper and other media outlets on the back of your dossier ( I'm sure the East Anglian Daily Times hasn't had a story about fed-up Norwich fans for a couple of weeks), and ask them to write a hard-hitting piece about "where all the money has gone".  I believe that the evening news has run similar stories in the past.  You can also point people to your dossier (once it's created) when arguments like this come up, which they seem to regularly.  Once all the facts are in place ( and I mean facts, not double-counting of transfer fees or the fag packet calculations we've both been guilty of in the past ), people can make their own minds up as to whether your opinion is correct.  Unless, of course, you believe that your opinion isn't based on facts ?  Maybe that's why you take this "drip-drip", piecemeal approach to "converting the masses" (well, I say masses, I mean 40 bored office workers and the Magical Dave from Lowestoft ) ?  I guess my point here is - what are you trying to acheive, what is your motivation ?  Why do you financially boycott the club ?  And why do you post so regularly about the same financial stuff ?  Do you seek to remove the incumbents ?  Or do you just want to point them to past errors (which I am fairly certain they are already aware of, just keeping schtum about them and concentrating on not making further errors ) ?  The sheer bald fact of the matter is that 99.5% of people don't care about stuff like this unless they can believe that it directly effects them.  Most of the supporters are just getting on with their day, they're not getting wound up about some other companys' financial situation.   They pay their money on a Saturday afternoon, shout or doze for 90 minutes with 15 minutes in the middle for a beer or a waz, and then go back to their lives.   Create a dossier, and you might convince more people of your opinion, which obviously means a lot to you.  Deloitte (who know a few things about football accountancy) would hold Norwich up as a shining example of how to run a club properly though, in a time when 40 football league clubs have gone into administration in the last 15 years. Dual The A11 Petition    Report

16/05/2008, 8:41 AM GazzaTCC Joined on 27/08/2003 Chelmsford Posts 708 Re: Last 3 years - £19.3m transfer fees incoming - £8.6m transfer fees outgoing  Mr.Carrow wrote:  Trent Canary wrote:  GazzaTCC wrote:  Trent Canary wrote: I blame the wages. Someone a while ago posted our wages/turnover ratio, to say its unhealthy is an understatement. But then so is the vast majority of clubs. Im surprised the sport as a whole gets away with it. There was an interested quote in the paper (I've been surfing and can't find it) a week or so back, from Deliottes, as part of their annual football survey, suggesting that professional clubs should aim for an ideal scenario where players' wages should be a maximum of 50% of the clubs turnover.     Thats the general rule for any business Gazza IMO. The stats I read recently had Norwich up around 80% some years, and ive heard that some premiership clubs are the same. Ive always been convinced that the money issues in the game is down to player wages, and its going to take a widespread initiative to curb it, but it wont happen. http://www.pinkun.com/cs/forums/1182016/ShowPost.aspx  -Heres the thread here infact, last year Ipswich had a whopping 95% wages to turnover ratio! Now someone please explain to me how thats sustainable? (There is an answer, but its a very unfair and unethical one) NCFC`s player wages as a percentage of turnover have been reduced from 50% in the promotion season, to 29% in the Prem, then 36% the following season, and 31% last season.  That is way below average. There was also a significant element of stand building and non football related costs (which we all love to hate) to add into the mix as well, thereby reducing the football spend. "The only place where success comes before work is in a dictionary."    Report

16/05/2008, 12:21 PM Mr.Carrow Joined on 06/12/2003 Posts 1,744 Re: Last 3 years - £19.3m transfer fees incoming - £8.6m transfer fees outgoing  GazzaTCC wrote:  Mr.Carrow wrote:  Trent Canary wrote:  GazzaTCC wrote:  Trent Canary wrote: I blame the wages. Someone a while ago posted our wages/turnover ratio, to say its unhealthy is an understatement. But then so is the vast majority of clubs. Im surprised the sport as a whole gets away with it. There was an interested quote in the paper (I've been surfing and can't find it) a week or so back, from Deliottes, as part of their annual football survey, suggesting that professional clubs should aim for an ideal scenario where players' wages should be a maximum of 50% of the clubs turnover.     Thats the general rule for any business Gazza IMO. The stats I read recently had Norwich up around 80% some years, and ive heard that some premiership clubs are the same. Ive always been convinced that the money issues in the game is down to player wages, and its going to take a widespread initiative to curb it, but it wont happen. http://www.pinkun.com/cs/forums/1182016/ShowPost.aspx  -Heres the thread here infact, last year Ipswich had a whopping 95% wages to turnover ratio! Now someone please explain to me how thats sustainable? (There is an answer, but its a very unfair and unethical one) NCFC`s player wages as a percentage of turnover have been reduced from 50% in the promotion season, to 29% in the Prem, then 36% the following season, and 31% last season.  That is way below average. There was also a significant element of stand building and non football related costs (which we all love to hate) to add into the mix as well, thereby reducing the football spend. And look at the effect it`s had on the most important thing, the team.  They have had their priorities wrong and it`s time the boards` "obsession" was switched back to creating a competitive football team.    Report

16/05/2008, 12:42 PM Mr.Carrow Joined on 06/12/2003 Posts 1,744 Re: Last 3 years - £19.3m transfer fees incoming - £8.6m transfer fees outgoing  blahblahblah wrote:  Mr.Carrow wrote: Which is exactly why they can get away with spinning things however they want and the vast majority just accept it. Don't take it lying down Mr Carrow - you obviously care enough about this issue to post about it at 7:24 am, when most of us are trying to work out how to tie our shoelaces or getting toothpaste down our shirts. What I suggest you do is get together a dossier of the facts of the situation, all in one place.  Then publish them in a location on the information-super-hard-shoulder. A thread here, a facebook group - wherever, you don't need to be a programmer to get stuff online these days.  Then you can approach this newspaper and other media outlets on the back of your dossier ( I'm sure the East Anglian Daily Times hasn't had a story about fed-up Norwich fans for a couple of weeks), and ask them to write a hard-hitting piece about "where all the money has gone".  I believe that the evening news has run similar stories in the past.  You can also point people to your dossier (once it's created) when arguments like this come up, which they seem to regularly.  Once all the facts are in place ( and I mean facts, not double-counting of transfer fees or the fag packet calculations we've both been guilty of in the past ), people can make their own minds up as to whether your opinion is correct.  Unless, of course, you believe that your opinion isn't based on facts ?  Maybe that's why you take this "drip-drip", piecemeal approach to "converting the masses" (well, I say masses, I mean 40 bored office workers and the Magical Dave from Lowestoft ) ?  I guess my point here is - what are you trying to acheive, what is your motivation ?  Why do you financially boycott the club ?  And why do you post so regularly about the same financial stuff ?  Do you seek to remove the incumbents ?  Or do you just want to point them to past errors (which I am fairly certain they are already aware of, just keeping schtum about them and concentrating on not making further errors ) ?  The sheer bald fact of the matter is that 99.5% of people don't care about stuff like this unless they can believe that it directly effects them.  Most of the supporters are just getting on with their day, they're not getting wound up about some other companys' financial situation.   They pay their money on a Saturday afternoon, shout or doze for 90 minutes with 15 minutes in the middle for a beer or a waz, and then go back to their lives.   Create a dossier, and you might convince more people of your opinion, which obviously means a lot to you.  Deloitte (who know a few things about football accountancy) would hold Norwich up as a shining example of how to run a club properly though, in a time when 40 football league clubs have gone into administration in the last 15 years. Blah, i have probably started less than 10 threads since i`ve been a member.  I almost always post in response to what i see as misunderstandings, misinformation or, bluntly, bulls**t propoganda.  For example, the assumptions on wages above are probably the former. I financially boycott the club because i don`t believe that the boards` priorities are the same as mine- doing everything possible to create a successful football team- and i will not financially back people who are slowly stifling the competitive spirit of the club in favour of nice corporate facilities, restaurants, land speculation etc. But to be fair Roeder has competitive spirit by the bucketload so it`s an interesting appointment and should be an interesting few months ahead..... If the main point of football clubs is to make big profits then City can indeed be held up as a shining example, but then it`s not that difficult to make profits for a few years by selling off your best players and replacing them with cheaper, inferior players.  But then the performance on the pitch declines, player and fan unrest grows, and you end up with a massively devalued squad with no gems to sell for millions struggling against relegation.  Sound familiar?  I`m pretty sure we had exactly this debate over two years ago........    Report

16/05/2008, 1:00 PM mr carra Joined on 27/05/2004 Posts 69 Re: Last 3 years - £19.3m transfer fees incoming - £8.6m transfer fees outgoing "I almost always post in response to what i see as misunderstandings, misinformation or, bluntly, bulls**t propoganda.  For example, the assumptions on wages above are probably the former." But you never provide anything to back up your claims (the key phrase in all that is of course "what I see") and never have any positive suggestions - you just make stuff up and moan.  Because of course its more fun to complain and find somebody to blame (and far far easier than putting things right).  "If the main point of football clubs is to make big profits then City can indeed be held up as a shining example" City DO NOT make massive profits.  This can easily be seen by looking at the actual financial figures.  But you wouldn't do that of course because facts are the mortal enemy of fantasists like yourself.      Report

16/05/2008, 2:16 PM Mr.Carrow Joined on 06/12/2003 Posts 1,744 Re: Last 3 years - £19.3m transfer fees incoming - £8.6m transfer fees outgoing  mr carra wrote: "I almost always post in response to what i see as misunderstandings, misinformation or, bluntly, bulls**t propoganda.  For example, the assumptions on wages above are probably the former." But you never provide anything to back up your claims (the key phrase in all that is of course "what I see") and never have any positive suggestions - you just make stuff up and moan.  Because of course its more fun to complain and find somebody to blame (and far far easier than putting things right).  "If the main point of football clubs is to make big profits then City can indeed be held up as a shining example" City DO NOT make massive profits.  This can easily be seen by looking at the actual financial figures.  But you wouldn't do that of course because facts are the mortal enemy of fantasists like yourself.   What on earth are you wittering on about?  I provided the turnover/player wage percentages above as printed in the accounts.  I would say £12m profit over three financial years is "big" for football clubs wouldn`t you?.  Do you want the exact figures?  Or would you prefer to ignore the facts that you don`t like?    Report

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pink'un » Have Your Say » Main Discussion... » Re: Last 3 years - £19.3m transfer fees incoming - £8.6m transfer fees outgoing

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